Cyberspace » Norway: Xenophopia's Capitol?
1 to 27 of 27
I have a slightly off-topic culture question. Is Norway really as homogeneous as I hear? Apparently, many Scandinavian countries with Norway in particular are not too fond of foreigners. How accurate is this?
Interesting question.
Norway has traditionally been extremely homogenous. However, this has changed slowly since the 1970's, and at an increasing rate since the 1990's. Immigration has been spread across the country, but is mostly concentrated in Oslo, where immigrants make up 25 % of the population. According to Statistics Norway (SSB) it's estimated that approx. 10% of the inhabitants in Norway are immigrants or children of immigrants. Half of this group originates from Asia, Africa and Latin-America. The definition that have been used for immigrant in this context is: "A person that at one time immigrated to Norway", and a child of an immigrant is defined as: "born in Norway, but both parents are immigrants".
As with any country, the views on immigration are divided. You've got your hillbilly rednecks that wouldn't want to dirty up their inbred genepool with someone from outside their family, and you've also got people that want free immigration. However, I'd say that most of the population are conservative in the way that they want to "keep their wealth" and not share it with "outsiders". At the same time they preach about Norway's generosity in taking in their quotas of refugees etc.
In general you'll find Norwegian people to be a bit reserved towards foreigners (and people we don't already know personally!). This is a part of our Lutherian cultural heritage. Usually we have a hard time accepting other people's good intentions for what they are, and attribute them other motives in the process. This does not concern only foreigners though.
When it comes to other Scandinavian countries I'd say (based on no particular scientific evidence) that from my experience the Finns are more homogenous than Norwegians, and that racism is more widespread there. Finland is sort of the "bad boy" in Scandinavia when it comes to nationalism etc. I just realized that Finland might not be considered a part of Scandinavia, but what the heck.
Sweden and Denmark have had more experience with immigration than Norway has, and such seem to be more comfortable with it. In Denmark there's been several conflicts between immigrants and native Danes in the past couple of years, attributed to the publication of the Muhammed drawings, and also from underlying tension that's been building up over the years.
Puh, I need my lunch break.
Norway has traditionally been extremely homogenous. However, this has changed slowly since the 1970's, and at an increasing rate since the 1990's. Immigration has been spread across the country, but is mostly concentrated in Oslo, where immigrants make up 25 % of the population. According to Statistics Norway (SSB) it's estimated that approx. 10% of the inhabitants in Norway are immigrants or children of immigrants. Half of this group originates from Asia, Africa and Latin-America. The definition that have been used for immigrant in this context is: "A person that at one time immigrated to Norway", and a child of an immigrant is defined as: "born in Norway, but both parents are immigrants".
As with any country, the views on immigration are divided. You've got your hillbilly rednecks that wouldn't want to dirty up their inbred genepool with someone from outside their family, and you've also got people that want free immigration. However, I'd say that most of the population are conservative in the way that they want to "keep their wealth" and not share it with "outsiders". At the same time they preach about Norway's generosity in taking in their quotas of refugees etc.
In general you'll find Norwegian people to be a bit reserved towards foreigners (and people we don't already know personally!). This is a part of our Lutherian cultural heritage. Usually we have a hard time accepting other people's good intentions for what they are, and attribute them other motives in the process. This does not concern only foreigners though.
When it comes to other Scandinavian countries I'd say (based on no particular scientific evidence) that from my experience the Finns are more homogenous than Norwegians, and that racism is more widespread there. Finland is sort of the "bad boy" in Scandinavia when it comes to nationalism etc. I just realized that Finland might not be considered a part of Scandinavia, but what the heck.
Sweden and Denmark have had more experience with immigration than Norway has, and such seem to be more comfortable with it. In Denmark there's been several conflicts between immigrants and native Danes in the past couple of years, attributed to the publication of the Muhammed drawings, and also from underlying tension that's been building up over the years.
Puh, I need my lunch break.
Holy wall of text, Batman.
No, Finland is not a part of Scandinavia. Only the three monarchies Norway, Denmark and Sweden are. A lot of people consider Finland and/or Iceland as Scandinavian countries, but they're wrong. Norwegians are not particularly racist in my experience. When it comes to Europe I've experienced far, far worse racism in France and Holland than I ever have in Norway. And that says a lot considering I've only been a couple weeks in the aforementioned countries compared to a lifetime here. Go two generations up in Norway and of course you'll find a lot of irrational prejudice towards foreigners, but I defy you to name any country where you wouldn't.
I actually think this is an odd question, my experience is that Scandinavians in general are very hospitable people. I also thought that was something Norway in particular was renown for.
No, Finland is not a part of Scandinavia. Only the three monarchies Norway, Denmark and Sweden are. A lot of people consider Finland and/or Iceland as Scandinavian countries, but they're wrong. Norwegians are not particularly racist in my experience. When it comes to Europe I've experienced far, far worse racism in France and Holland than I ever have in Norway. And that says a lot considering I've only been a couple weeks in the aforementioned countries compared to a lifetime here. Go two generations up in Norway and of course you'll find a lot of irrational prejudice towards foreigners, but I defy you to name any country where you wouldn't.
I actually think this is an odd question, my experience is that Scandinavians in general are very hospitable people. I also thought that was something Norway in particular was renown for.
@LoneShark
TL;DR so they are, but no more than, say, America. That's worrisome, because America is fucking xenophobic as hell, hahaha.
While I definitely concede that Norwegians have traditionally been good with foreign aid, my question was more regarding actual conditions found with immigration. I think you guys did answer my question though, thanks!
I'm assuming an immigrant that spoke Norwegian would be infinitely more accepted too, right?
TL;DR so they are, but no more than, say, America. That's worrisome, because America is fucking xenophobic as hell, hahaha.
While I definitely concede that Norwegians have traditionally been good with foreign aid, my question was more regarding actual conditions found with immigration. I think you guys did answer my question though, thanks!
I'm assuming an immigrant that spoke Norwegian would be infinitely more accepted too, right?
Of course. We're only human. Apart from the Norwegians that are real robots.
Obviously, yes.
Conditions found with immigration? Pretty much like everywhere else; Segregation upon segregation upon segregation. But I hardly think the "host" country can be held responsible for language and/or cultural barriers. That's just the nature of things and, in my opinion, has little to do with xenophobia. You couldn't do much of anything with a person who couldn't understand you and/or make him-/herself understood, that's just common sense and has nothing to do with where the person comes from. People who get pissed off at immigrants riding welfare don't stop and think about what a hopeless situation it is. For both parts. Integration into society is certainly the goal in Norway as other countries, but no matter how hard you try that's never gonna happen with first generation immigrants, so all these little societies forming within societies will continue. It's an impossible pattern to break free from. If I had my way we'd just all learn English or Mandarin straight away, and remove the unnecessary evil that is languages. Fuck cultural heritage, Norwegian for one is completely broken by the IM-generation already.
Conditions found with immigration? Pretty much like everywhere else; Segregation upon segregation upon segregation. But I hardly think the "host" country can be held responsible for language and/or cultural barriers. That's just the nature of things and, in my opinion, has little to do with xenophobia. You couldn't do much of anything with a person who couldn't understand you and/or make him-/herself understood, that's just common sense and has nothing to do with where the person comes from. People who get pissed off at immigrants riding welfare don't stop and think about what a hopeless situation it is. For both parts. Integration into society is certainly the goal in Norway as other countries, but no matter how hard you try that's never gonna happen with first generation immigrants, so all these little societies forming within societies will continue. It's an impossible pattern to break free from. If I had my way we'd just all learn English or Mandarin straight away, and remove the unnecessary evil that is languages. Fuck cultural heritage, Norwegian for one is completely broken by the IM-generation already.
So...when are you coming to Norway, Kid? ^^
One of the things which I noticed pretty quick when I arrived in the US, is how focused people are on the race issue. Also, it's the only country where I've experienced being disliked because the colour of my skin. I mean, hebus jebus, is it my fault, or a fault at all? Personally I disagree; there's only one race, the human race. And some robots.
You've got racists, liberal-discriminators and total liberals in Norway. Just as in Sweden, Denmark, UK, France etc.
One of the things which I noticed pretty quick when I arrived in the US, is how focused people are on the race issue. Also, it's the only country where I've experienced being disliked because the colour of my skin. I mean, hebus jebus, is it my fault, or a fault at all? Personally I disagree; there's only one race, the human race. And some robots.
You've got racists, liberal-discriminators and total liberals in Norway. Just as in Sweden, Denmark, UK, France etc.
Yeah, the U.S. is just...well...our reputation precedes us obviously. I apologize.
And yeah, alexander, that makes a lot of sense. Foreign barriers are always difficult to overcome, regardless of destination.
Fuck languages.
And yeah, alexander, that makes a lot of sense. Foreign barriers are always difficult to overcome, regardless of destination.
Fuck languages.
You can't fuck a language. But you can fuck the people who made them...if you're into that kind of thing.
Heck, I don't judge. Go ahead, get a head...or a skull. Something, I dunno. I need some rest.
Heck, I don't judge. Go ahead, get a head...or a skull. Something, I dunno. I need some rest.
about 15 hours later…
To Koew: How much longer are you in the US of A?
PS: Yes everyone, I'm alive, just busy. (RESUME TOPIC)
PS: Yes everyone, I'm alive, just busy. (RESUME TOPIC)
@anthony: I'm leaving december 15th. I'll be in NYC the whole time (except from tours to NJ).
And I'm wearing my Binärpilot-shirt right now. I'll be ordering some more soon, when I'm finished with this philosophy assignment (due on monday).
And I'm wearing my Binärpilot-shirt right now. I'll be ordering some more soon, when I'm finished with this philosophy assignment (due on monday).
1 day later…
going back to what koew said (there's only one race...), the American education system constantly reminds us that there are different races. we had a whole bunch of race issues in the past (black vs white vs indian vs x vs y...) and constantly have it hurled back at us. i doubt any other country (except maybe Canada) has Black History Month, or Latin history month. in Los Angeles (and surrounding cities), there is an immense amount of racism, i dealt with it through 12 years of school (less in 7-12 grade). i'm not exactly helping my country's case, am i. anyway, at some point over the next few years, i'll be floating into Europe, literally, and maybe even see this Norway place (if i can leave Germany).
ps: the above isn't rationale, but an explanation about my country. but, as Kid Dynamite said, our reputation precedes us.
ps: the above isn't rationale, but an explanation about my country. but, as Kid Dynamite said, our reputation precedes us.
about 1 year later…
Hitting up on this topic now that I've lived in Norway for over a year.
Norway is not as xenophobic or racist as America. This is obvious with Arizona's new immigration law (seriously, wtf) HOWEVER I will say Norwegians definitely have opinions of foreigners. Mostly Sweeds though, so it's fine.
No but seriously. Norwegians tend to get offended that I haven't yet learned the language even though I can't even go to language classes until I get my visa which I even STILL don't have (2 weeks though, woo!) This has only come up a few times, but it gets old in my situation.
America seems to think Europe hates us/makes fun of us. Well, this is only partially true. When I meet Norwegians/Europeans they're mostly curious as to where I'm from and want to ask questions, etc. There have been a few times, however, where they have complained to me about Bush (no shit) and even Obama winning the Nobel Prize (sorry?) I got in a rather heated discussion about that one, but it's a different story.
All in all I'd say that no matter where you're from you're going to be a little protective/patriotic of your country. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way trying to say America is the best country and that the last 8 years were just peachy, but I am proud I am American and do miss many aspects about the country. I also don't deny that as an American I would be doing the same thing in the States.
I really enjoy living in Norway, I hope Norwegians are fine with that :)_
Norway is not as xenophobic or racist as America. This is obvious with Arizona's new immigration law (seriously, wtf) HOWEVER I will say Norwegians definitely have opinions of foreigners. Mostly Sweeds though, so it's fine.
No but seriously. Norwegians tend to get offended that I haven't yet learned the language even though I can't even go to language classes until I get my visa which I even STILL don't have (2 weeks though, woo!) This has only come up a few times, but it gets old in my situation.
America seems to think Europe hates us/makes fun of us. Well, this is only partially true. When I meet Norwegians/Europeans they're mostly curious as to where I'm from and want to ask questions, etc. There have been a few times, however, where they have complained to me about Bush (no shit) and even Obama winning the Nobel Prize (sorry?) I got in a rather heated discussion about that one, but it's a different story.
All in all I'd say that no matter where you're from you're going to be a little protective/patriotic of your country. Don't get me wrong, I am in no way trying to say America is the best country and that the last 8 years were just peachy, but I am proud I am American and do miss many aspects about the country. I also don't deny that as an American I would be doing the same thing in the States.
I really enjoy living in Norway, I hope Norwegians are fine with that :)_
about america, well, sorta, i feel we dislike the country, not the people, although through youtube and stuff we have gotten a picture of americans as stupid ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJuNgBkloFE ).
but ofc we also have the smart and cool americans, the beat generation and brilliant writers and movie makers and singers and muscicians and all.
But most norwegians I meet and talk to about it, want to go there, see nyc and all that.
And with the immigration. Well, different views as stated many times. I think we have some fear of strangers (as all people probably have?) as the media sometimes portray the immigrants as the only criminals and (mostly politics in the media, FRP which is one of the now bigger parties here in norway, who are rather racist and conservative). And as some parts of the criminal trades that are visible have some percentage of immigrants in them, not that there aren't norwegians too, but it's so much easier to spot the "odd one out".
But as there is some racism and fear of strangers, there is also love of the phenomenon (well, all this is repetition of what the others have said, whattheheck) and on the other side, just today my mother told me of a thing she heard about a lot of immigrant youth who hate norwegians and norway. So it's not exactly a one-sided matter either.
however these days i'd rather be here as an immigrant than in e.g. italy, where i'd probably get stowed into a big prison like camp.
and we are very fine with you living here, rachael :)
but ofc we also have the smart and cool americans, the beat generation and brilliant writers and movie makers and singers and muscicians and all.
But most norwegians I meet and talk to about it, want to go there, see nyc and all that.
And with the immigration. Well, different views as stated many times. I think we have some fear of strangers (as all people probably have?) as the media sometimes portray the immigrants as the only criminals and (mostly politics in the media, FRP which is one of the now bigger parties here in norway, who are rather racist and conservative). And as some parts of the criminal trades that are visible have some percentage of immigrants in them, not that there aren't norwegians too, but it's so much easier to spot the "odd one out".
But as there is some racism and fear of strangers, there is also love of the phenomenon (well, all this is repetition of what the others have said, whattheheck) and on the other side, just today my mother told me of a thing she heard about a lot of immigrant youth who hate norwegians and norway. So it's not exactly a one-sided matter either.
however these days i'd rather be here as an immigrant than in e.g. italy, where i'd probably get stowed into a big prison like camp.
and we are very fine with you living here, rachael :)
2 days later…
Hm, lots of info, thanks bros.
Yeah, that's one of the huge appeals of Norway as a site to travel abroad as opposed to somewhere beautiful but dangerous like certain parts of Africa; they appear to have a decent (read: not draconic) justice system.
Posted by lolmikkel:however these days i'd rather be here as an immigrant than in e.g. italy, where i'd probably get stowed into a big prison like camp.
Yeah, that's one of the huge appeals of Norway as a site to travel abroad as opposed to somewhere beautiful but dangerous like certain parts of Africa; they appear to have a decent (read: not draconic) justice system.
...and don't forget that Reddit fucking loves us.
Seriously, there's like "Norway's a lovely place"-posts every other week.
I'm still pending the approval of Rachael. She's got shifty eyes:
Seriously, there's like "Norway's a lovely place"-posts every other week.
I'm still pending the approval of Rachael. She's got shifty eyes:
Edited May 11, 2010
How about now that I know that's a Simpsons reference? Eh? Ehhh? The one where Homer and Mel Gibson make a movie? Ehhhh?
1 day later…
Son of a bitch.
Effective April 5th, 2010: New Visa Rules
New visa applicants: "as a rule, you will be notified about the outcome of your application within 15 days from submission at a Foreign Service Mission. It is a precondition that the application is correctly completed and contains all required documentation."
FURTHER MORE
"Although the Foreign Service Missions process more than 95 per cent of all visa applications to Norway, some cases are submitted to the Norwegian Directorate of Immigration (UDI). As a rule, processing time for these cases is 30 days"
I AM SO FUCKING PISSED.
I have been waiting since November to get my visa, and we initially started the entire process A YEAR AGO. Like, I'm really glad they got their shit together and it will be a way shorter length of time but seriously. I feel like choking someone out right now. This has been one of the longest, most stressful, hardest processes I've ever gone through in my life and now they literally made it 1,000 times easier. Not only are the waiting periods cut down by about 90%, but they have made all the forms standardized with the rest of Europe and way easier to complete.
Also, now UDI can actually give you a REASON why it was rejected, where as my first visa they gave us no reason, rhyme, or option.
This is a huge FML.
Effective April 5th, 2010: New Visa Rules
New visa applicants: "as a rule, you will be notified about the outcome of your application within 15 days from submission at a Foreign Service Mission. It is a precondition that the application is correctly completed and contains all required documentation."
FURTHER MORE
"Although the Foreign Service Missions process more than 95 per cent of all visa applications to Norway, some cases are submitted to the Norwegian Directorate of Immigration (UDI). As a rule, processing time for these cases is 30 days"
I AM SO FUCKING PISSED.
I have been waiting since November to get my visa, and we initially started the entire process A YEAR AGO. Like, I'm really glad they got their shit together and it will be a way shorter length of time but seriously. I feel like choking someone out right now. This has been one of the longest, most stressful, hardest processes I've ever gone through in my life and now they literally made it 1,000 times easier. Not only are the waiting periods cut down by about 90%, but they have made all the forms standardized with the rest of Europe and way easier to complete.
Also, now UDI can actually give you a REASON why it was rejected, where as my first visa they gave us no reason, rhyme, or option.
This is a huge FML.
Posted by lolmikkel:wow, seriously silly people. why are they being so silly?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureaucracy
about 14 hours later…
And people believe I work at UDI. I don't, never have, never will. I work at UDIR - which is the Directorate for Education and Training.
But yeah, bureaucracy can go fudge itself. Filling out forms sucks!
But yeah, bureaucracy can go fudge itself. Filling out forms sucks!
1 to 27 of 27